August 2, 2006
(h/t Michelle Malkin)
Now if there ever a reason to sue someone for libel or defamation, it would be John Murtha:
A Marine Corps staff sergeant who led the squad accused of killing two dozen civilians in Haditha, Iraq, will file a lawsuit today in federal court in Washington claiming that Rep. John P. Murtha (D-Pa.) defamed him when the congressman made public comments about the incident earlier this year.Attorneys for Frank D. Wuterich, 26, argue in court papers that Murtha tarnished the Marine’s reputation by telling news organizations in May that the Marine unit cracked after a roadside bomb killed one of its members and that the troops “killed innocent civilians in cold blood.” Murtha also said repeatedly that the incident was covered up.
40 Responses to “Murtha Sued By Haditha Marine”
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5:27 pm [ Quote ]
I hope he wins!
If he needs any money for his defense I will contribute!
5:35 pm [ Quote ]
WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday….
5:40 pm [ Quote ]
Actually Um, there are some websites posted on MFOV.org, type in Marine Defense Fund and it will come up in a post and they are listed there. They’re really appreciative, I’ve received notes back from all of their families appreciating it very much.
I hope he wins too and takes Murtha to the cleaners.
5:41 pm [ Quote ]
I know Smoker wants them strung up by their toes regardless if they’re convicted or not.
5:42 pm [ Quote ]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7250029
i guess this guy was guilty also
in your eyes…
5:43 pm [ Quote ]
BTW, Pantano was found to be innocent….
6:02 pm [ Quote ]
I know Smoker wants them strung up by their toes regardless if they’re convicted or not.
No Rose your wrong…If it’s found to be true that these Marines killed civilians….All I want to see is a fair trial and for them to be sentenced accordingly.
6:15 pm [ Quote ]
Murtha needs to be tried for sedition!
6:20 pm [ Quote ]
Wait…...a Democrat prejudged and exaggerated information for political gain….say it ain’t so. He is only libel or slanderous if after the rulings all come out against him…..and he still doesn’t retract….then you can start throwing eggs at his constituents.
6:24 pm [ Quote ]
WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday….
We in America belief in “Innocent until proven guilty.”
6:29 pm [ Quote ]
Wait…. I’m sorry… Innocent until PROVEN guilty does not apply here.
They are US soldiers, the modern day Hun army set upon the world to desecrate, rape, pillage and burn anything it comes into contact with.
Forget the fact that Lefty Limey would be Lefty Kraut if it wasn’t for this human stain known as the US Soldier.
6:30 pm [ Quote ]
Happy, why are you calling Hello Rose? She and I are not the same person. I have a lot of respect for her but you show a lot of ignorance in thinking we are the same person. I have never served in the military and don’t have her insights or experience. I am a housewife from Calif. If I remember correctly Hello is from Hawaii. You are no Sherlock!!
6:30 pm [ Quote ]
Why do this Haditha Marine hate America?
Can I question his patriotism NOW?
?!
6:33 pm [ Quote ]
Happy, why are you calling Hello Rose? She and I are not the same person. I have a lot of respect for her but you show a lot of ignorance in thinking we are the same person. I have never served in the military and don’t have her insights or experience. I am a housewife from Calif. If I remember correctly Hello is from Hawaii. You are no Sherlock!!
Keep your hair on….It was an honest mistake
6:36 pm [ Quote ]
Oh, well, I don’t have her military connections or experiences. Give her credit for her posts.
7:47 pm [ Quote ]
OK, let’s get the facts in order.
Read the whole story and you’ll see that Staff Sgt Wuterich filed the suit to speed up the discovery process for his defense attorney in his own criminal case. Sgt Wuterich’s suit against Murtha is aimed at getting info on whoever at the DoD gave him the info on the NCIS investigation.
He says in the suit that the information passed onto Murtha was “deliberatly misleading.”
That’s pretty much moot now that the NCIS report came out today, pretty much backing up everything Murtha was talking about back in May. (The only difference was that in Murtha’s statements he tried to defend the Marines by saying they had not been given proper medical care to prevent cases of PTSD).
So, before Sgt Wuterich can go into court to sue Murtha, he has to win his criminal case. (The lawsuit cannot go ahead if he’s convicted).
He must also prove that what Murtha said was not in the NCIS report (which Murtha attributed his information to in the statements in question).
This suit will probably be dismissed shortly. I hope to see the dismissal get as much attention here if that happens.
8:05 pm [ Quote ]
WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday….
Please post this evidence
8:35 pm [ Quote ]
Smoker, too much Wacky Weed. Rose & I are not the same person. You’ve lost a few brain cells there with the wacky weed.
8:36 pm [ Quote ]
Rose, he’s done that a number of times calling us one in the same. I guess in his world if you have a similiar view and you’re a woman you must be the same person. Funny, isn’t it?
9:05 pm [ Quote ]
Great minds think alike!
9:23 pm [ Quote ]
Meaning our minds, certainly not his.
9:41 pm [ Quote ]
WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday….
Please post this evidence
I guess clicking on the link supplied is to hard for some people.
9:54 pm [ Quote ]
Apollo (re post 16), are you a lawyer? I am, I have litigated libel cases (I argued and won an important case in the New York Court of Appeals on the defense side), and my opinion is that Staff Sgt. Wuterich’s suit is NOT going to be dismissed soon. To the contrary, I think that it is possible for Staff Sgt. Wuterich to win his case.
Accusing someone, as Murtha did, of cold blooded murder is unquestionably defamatory; and it is actionable defamation if false and culpably published. Wuterich certainly gets to discovery in his case; whether he wins depends upon proof of falsity (that cold blooded murder did not occur) and cuplability in publishing that falsity (that Murtha did not exercise proper care in making the false accusation).
As for the “criminal case,” the last that I heard was that a Pentagon source had said that the Hadfitha investigation had concluded that the Haditha civilians were killed intentionally, but then acknowledged that autopsy evidence had not been obtained and that no charges have yet been brought. Even if charges are brought, that is just the beginning of a process. Marine Lieutenant Ilario Pantano had to go to a hearing to prove his innocence and did, getting the charges dismissed. Perhaps certain people in the Pentagon want to put the Haditha Marines through the same for the sake of political appearances, and some people in the Pentagon may want that to happen because they informed or misinformed Murtha in the first place leading to Murtha’s cold blooded murder accusation. Unfortunately, bureaucratic politics are in play here.
All of this leads me to say that the Wuterich suit may prove to be a real problem for Murtha and certain people in the Pentagon. I, for one, am angered by the efforts to put our soldiers and Marines on trial without really hard proof that cannot exist in the absence of, among other things, autopsy evidence, and I don’t think that I am alone. In the Pantano case, he proved his innocence at the hearing based largely on testimony, and when they finally got the autopsy evidence after the hearing, it proved Pantano’s case and disproved the prosecution’s theory; Pantano should not have been charged in the first place. We are dealing with Islamo-fascists who are very attune to what such charges as made as to Haditha can do to help them and are quite willing to stage scenes to spark accusations against American soldiers and Marines.
10:00 pm [ Quote ]
Phil Byler: Great post #23.
By the way, since you are a lawyer, I heard that Iraq, because of Islamic Law, refuses to exhume the bodies for examination. If the bodies cannot be examined and therefore there can be no proof they were shot at all, how can any legal case against these Marines go forward?
10:32 pm [ Quote ]
Umnumzana (re post 24): You raise a good question that is particularly pertinent in light of the Pantano case. But as in the Pantano case, charges may be brought without such autopsy evidence.
This will probably take a good hard fight to get right, and the Haditha Marines should be supported to the hilt by the likes of us. The Left wants another My Lai; and there are bureaucrats in Washington D.C. with Democratic Party alliances who are willing to betray their offices to embarrass the Bush Administration and who don’t care that they are playing with the lives and honor of good men who put their lives on the line for the country. If the Marines fight, however, the truth will come out, and my hunch is that it will exonerate them, as it did Pantano, and disgrace Murtha and some Pentagon paper pushers.
10:33 pm [ Quote ]
Great Post Phil! I heard on the John Gibson show this morning (well my time) the Judge say that the fact that Murtha used the words “Cold Blood” may make it difficult for the military to find an impartial jury. Either way, I hope Murtha gets his come uppance. He’s rattled off too much anti-troop banter and now claims he’s “concerned” that they’re under pressure and do wrong things.
Phil, I wish you were defending one of these guys instead of that Paul Hackett. I forget which one has him for a lawyer but I pray that he does a good job for him.
10:50 pm [ Quote ]
Hello, let’s hope and pray that all the lawyers for the Haditha Marines do a reat job; this one really matters.
Fortunately for my Army Ranger Lieutenant older son, if he has a problem in Iraq, he has told me he is going to call me. When you have your own flesh and blood on the line, you do look at these things with a certain passion.
10:50 pm [ Quote ]
That’s “great” job. Sorry, I am tired from the heat and a long day of work.
11:05 pm [ Quote ]
Well Phil, if anything happens to my husband over there I’ll have him look your son up and give you a call too!
6:58 am [ Quote ]
WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday….
Please post this evidence
It’s all over the real news. But I guess not on Faux News, or you would have heard it by now.
We in America belief in “Innocent until proven guilty.”
Really? Then practice what you preach. Most of you have already decided that Murtha is guilty of libel and defamation, before this case has ever even been heard. What if all of the evidence comes out and it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Murtha was right all along? You will still all call him a crazy liar, because nothing scares a conservative more than the truth.
7:40 am [ Quote ]
WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday….
Please post this evidence
I guess clicking on the link supplied is to hard for some people.
What link, asshole.
7:50 am [ Quote ]
WASHINGTON – Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday….
Please post this evidence
It’s all over the real news. But I guess not on Faux News, or you would have heard it by now.
We in America belief in “Innocent until proven guilty.”
Really? Then practice what you preach. Most of you have already decided that Murtha is guilty of libel and defamation, before this case has ever even been heard. What if all of the evidence comes out and it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Murtha was right all along? You will still all call him a crazy liar, because nothing scares a conservative more than the truth.
It wasn’t when I posted.
If you want Faux news, go find Dan Rather, he was an expert at faking news.
Faux news is rated #1, sooner or later you dummyfucks will have to face the facts.
Hey,did your face break the mirror?
8:09 am [ Quote ]
More lib lies:
You posted your comment on August 2, 2006 at 8:05 p.m. I read about the pentagon’s findings yesterday afternoon. So, yes, it had been on the news all day when you posted. More neocon lies.
Hey,did your face break the mirror?
So very clever. Gee, I’ve never heard that one before.
8:45 am [ Quote ]
More lib lies:
You posted your comment on August 2, 2006 at 8:05 p.m. I read about the pentagon’s findings yesterday afternoon. So, yes, it had been on the news all day when you posted. More neocon lies.
Hey,did your face break the mirror?
So very clever. Gee, I’ve never heard that one before.
I have a job, unlike you.
I was right about the mirror.
I guess you have heard the dog and porkchop joke too???
9:21 am [ Quote ]
Apollo (re post 16), are you a lawyer? I am, I have litigated libel cases (I argued and won an important case in the New York Court of Appeals on the defense side), and my opinion is that Staff Sgt. Wuterich’s suit is NOT going to be dismissed soon. To the contrary, I think that it is possible for Staff Sgt. Wuterich to win his case.
Accusing someone, as Murtha did, of cold blooded murder is unquestionably defamatory; and it is actionable defamation if false and culpably published. Wuterich certainly gets to discovery in his case; whether he wins depends upon proof of falsity (that cold blooded murder did not occur) and cuplability in publishing that falsity (that Murtha did not exercise proper care in making the false accusation).
As for the “criminal case,” the last that I heard was that a Pentagon source had said that the Hadfitha investigation had concluded that the Haditha civilians were killed intentionally, but then acknowledged that autopsy evidence had not been obtained and that no charges have yet been brought. Even if charges are brought, that is just the beginning of a process. Marine Lieutenant Ilario Pantano had to go to a hearing to prove his innocence and did, getting the charges dismissed. Perhaps certain people in the Pentagon want to put the Haditha Marines through the same for the sake of political appearances, and some people in the Pentagon may want that to happen because they informed or misinformed Murtha in the first place leading to Murtha’s cold blooded murder accusation. Unfortunately, bureaucratic politics are in play here.
All of this leads me to say that the Wuterich suit may prove to be a real problem for Murtha and certain people in the Pentagon. I, for one, am angered by the efforts to put our soldiers and Marines on trial without really hard proof that cannot exist in the absence of, among other things, autopsy evidence, and I don’t think that I am alone. In the Pantano case, he proved his innocence at the hearing based largely on testimony, and when they finally got the autopsy evidence after the hearing, it proved Pantano’s case and disproved the prosecution’s theory; Pantano should not have been charged in the first place. We are dealing with Islamo-fascists who are very attune to what such charges as made as to Haditha can do to help them and are quite willing to stage scenes to spark accusations against American soldiers and Marines.
Yes, I’m a lawyer.
One problem with your argument. “Truth is a defense.”
If the Sgt is convicted, the case is out the window.
Further, Murtha never accused anyone of murder. He was talking about what was in an official govenment report. He was citing an official NCIS investigation.
Murtha has never made a single defamatory statement about the troops involved. His statements were about the failure of government officials’ failure to provide proper medical oversight to the troops involved in the Haditha incident.
Remember, the Sgt’s suit has little to do with Murtha—it’s aimed at getting the names of people close to the investigation for the Sgt’s own criminal defense attorneys’ discovery efforts.
That’s pretty much moot now that the report is final.
12:05 pm [ Quote ]
Was the information that Murtha received classified? Is he guilty of leaking classified information?
12:44 pm [ Quote ]
Apollo (re post 35): If you are assuming that there is collateral estoppel effect to a report, then you are not a lawyer, at least not one who stayed awake in civil procedure class; any report will not establish a truth defense in the civil defamation case. If you are assuming that a court martial conviction will have collateral estoppel effect in the defamation civil case, then I am not so sure that is the case. If you are a lawyer, then you will know the legal test for collateral estoppel and understand that it will not necessarily apply. I have beaten the application of collateral estoppel in situations where people assumed that it would apply but was ruled that it did not.
As for saying that Murtha not making a defamatory statement, that is baloeney. Murtha did more than cite what was in a government report that was not released. He gave his own characterization of the conduct, which was that it was cold blooded murder.
As for your “Remember” statement concerning the point of the defamation suit being discovery, that is your spin. What you should remember is that charges (which have not to my knowledge been brought yet) are the beginning of a process.
2:53 am [ Quote ]
strange that no one’s suing Minnesota Republican John Kline for saying,
“There is no question that the Marines involved, those doing the shooting, they were busy in lying about it and covering it up — there is no question about it,” Kline said.—Los Angeles Times, May 27
or how about…
“This is just My Lai all over again,” Vaughan Taylor, a former military prosecutor and instructor in criminal law at the Army’s school for military lawyers, said last week. “It’s going to do us enormous damage.”—Washington Post, June 4
or countless other examples, including Donald Rumsfeld himself, calling the situation “really bad” and comparing it to My Lai.
this is clearly a politically-motivated partisan attack against a prominent war critic, a Democrat that’s successfully raising issues the Bush administration is afraid of dealing with. not to mention that Murtha did NOT mention any Marine by name, and was making a general criticism of the war effort and the negative effects it’s having on our troops.
8:02 am [ Quote ]
More lib lies:
You posted your comment on August 2, 2006 at 8:05 p.m. I read about the pentagon’s findings yesterday afternoon. So, yes, it had been on the news all day when you posted. More neocon lies.
Hey,did your face break the mirror?
So very clever. Gee, I’ve never heard that one before.
I have a job, unlike you.
I was right about the mirror.
I guess you have heard the dog and porkchop joke too???
You see, you assume quite a bit, but really know nothing. I am a quite gainfully employed, tax-paying, law-abiding American. Unlike you, I would never assume otherwise of anyone who has the motivation, wherewithall and a lunch break to remain abreast of current events.
Think whatever you want about my mirror – it is of absolutely no consequence to me.
Being the profound jokester that you are, I would imagine you have heard the one about the conservative who doesn’t know his ass from a hole in the ground?
6:25 pm [ Quote ]
What we have here is more desperation from the Swifty Neocons. Your hurt pride and humiliation is making you lose touch with the reality of the war situation.
Remember the good ole days. When Rummy, speaking about WMDs said, “we know where they are located…between Tikrit and Baghdad?”
Your war, NEOCONS, IS A DISASTER. You’ve found yourself digging in a hole and your answer is, “dig deeper.”
America is tired, and the military is tired. It’s not about “them.” It’s about us. So put your pride aside and be honest. We’re in a mess.